RndbyRnd: Froch-Abraham, JMM-Katsidis, Ward *SPOILERS*

[iamasadlittleboy]

So erm...Froch's best wins are against 2 career middleweights...and thats over shadowing Calzaghe? Dirrell and Pascal were close and controversial wins...Tatesovyan was a brilliant and over looked win. Can these really match Mitchell, Eubank, Reid, Woodhall, Brewer? Then you have Lacy and Kessler....

[RAZZ-MCFC]

So erm...Froch's best wins are against 2 career middleweights...and thats over shadowing Calzaghe? Dirrell and Pascal were close and controversial wins...Tatesovyan was a brilliant and over looked win. Can these really match Mitchell, Eubank, Reid, Woodhall, Brewer? Then you have Lacy and Kessler....

 

i'm sorry but some of those names you just mentioned were complete drivel, Woodhall and Brewer for one were nout special, Reid and Mitchell weren't much better

 

Eubank was shot to bits, Lacy got found out and Kessler is about Joe's best win on his record, plus Kessler was injured from the second round or whichever round it was

[brooklynbrawler]

So erm...Froch's best wins are against 2 career middleweights...and thats over shadowing Calzaghe? Dirrell and Pascal were close and controversial wins...Tatesovyan was a brilliant and over looked win. Can these really match Mitchell, Eubank, Reid, Woodhall, Brewer? Then you have Lacy and Kessler....

 

Dirrell was a close win, just as Calzaghe's win over Reid. (Who Froch KO'ed, albeit many years later).

There was no doubts about the Pascal win imo.

There were the same handful of people calling the Hopkins win controversial, and imo it was as straightforward as they get, bar the knockdown.

 

There was a clamouring for Joe to face Taylor before he lost to Pavlik, and then Kelly afterwards. Middleweight or not, still a huge scalp.

 

 

Hopkins

Kessler

Lacy

Eubank

Jones Jr

 

vs

 

Pascal

Abraham

Dirrell

Taylor

(Johnson)

 

There's nothing between them, and depending on the result of the Hopkins vs Pascal fight next month, it could push either of their achievements even further up the scale.

 

If Froch goes on to beat Johnson and Ward, it will blow Calzaghe's record out of the water imo. Big if, but it's still on.

[gavpowell]

I agree with mr brawler.

[grapevine241]

if froch can beat johnson and ward then OK maybe there is a case to be made, but i think its way too premature to make that claim. and trust me, im no calslappy fan.

[Wheelchair]

I have a feeling that Johnson will give Froch a very tough fight indeed.

[iamasadlittleboy]

So erm...Froch's best wins are against 2 career middleweights...and thats over shadowing Calzaghe? Dirrell and Pascal were close and controversial wins...Tatesovyan was a brilliant and over looked win. Can these really match Mitchell, Eubank, Reid, Woodhall, Brewer? Then you have Lacy and Kessler....

 

i'm sorry but some of those names you just mentioned were complete drivel, Woodhall and Brewer for one were nout special, Reid and Mitchell weren't much better

 

Eubank was shot to bits, Lacy got found out and Kessler is about Joe's best win on his record, plus Kessler was injured from the second round or whichever round it was

 

So Eubank would have been on par with Taylor surely? A fighter that was at the very end of his career and naturally smaller?

Pascla I had very close and feel that had it been in Canada Froch wouldn't have got the win.

Brewer may not have been special but is no less special than Abraham has looked at 168 (where he has 1 win in 3 fights, and that was against Taylor). Many felt Brewer should have had 2 wins over Ottke...the man Calzaghe should have fought

Reid was unlucky and shot to shit when Froch got him, Calzaghe may have been lucky there (personally I felt he nicked it in a close one)

Lacy got the fight beaten out of him, Kessler's injury was convienient, just like Froch's ear infection against Kessler.

 

Froch has the potential to go better than Calzaghe, but beating Taylor (shot and smaller), Abraham (smaller), Dirrell (close) and Pascal (close) are hardly better. A win over Ward or Bute would help him massively, though a loss to either, as well as the one to Kessler sticks him on the other side.

 

IMO of course.

[brooklynbrawler]

IMO, you can also pick holes in Joe's record if you really want to.

Joe was one of my favourite boxers, so I'm not going to, and while I think he was infinitely better than Froch, in terms of ability, I can't agree that his record is infinitely better.

You throw the fact that he kept his belt for 10 years, and won titles in two weight divisions, as well as retiring undefeated and it may paint a different picture, but I can't recall ANY point in Joe's career, where he took on so many competitive matches in a row.

His opponent list on paper, is largely nothing special.

 

At this point in time, I think Joe is edging Carl, but barely.

A win over Johnson alone, I think would propel Froch slightly ahead, dependant on how the Hopkins vs Pascal fight goes, because they are arguably the best fighters on either guys record.

If he went on to win the Super 6, which is a huge ask, he nails it. imo.

 

You might consider Abraham and Taylor "smaller" but that for me takes nothing off the achievement.

Imagine Clottey had beaten Pacquiao. Would he not still deserve the same credit for beating a truly elite fighter?

When Abraham moved up to SM, he was #2 in the middleweight division, only behind Kelly Pavlik.

As soon as he did move up he was deemed in the top 3 or 4 SM's, most definitely.

Taylor only had losses to Pavlik on his record when Froch beat him.

I think there's plenty of reason to defend Froch's achievements.

The guy has done REMARKABLY well, on what I think is a fairly limited set of skills (although the weekend's fight showed there might be more to him than a lot of people thought).

I think he deserves a lot of credit for his recent achievements.

[londoner]

I see Froch winning the whole tournament still, as i did right from the start. I've watched all but his very first bout and he's every bit the warrior as Benn, Eubank, Watson and Calzaghe. Shame he isn't as well known yet. He should be a household name in the UK.

 

Froch beat Abraham on the outside and outclassed him totally, he got in a brawl with Pascal and beat him convincingly (Pascal has since defeated Diaconu twice and dethroned LH champ and undefeaed Chad Dawson), he got outboxed by Taylor but didn't let it get him down for a second and scored an incredible 12th round KO, he beat Dirrell IMO as i have always believed the challenger has to WIN a World title and not just TAKE it off a champion who may have underperformed slightly on the evening (i always give the champion the decision in any 50-50 result) and IMO he beat Kessler (i scored the fight 115-113 for Froch).

 

Froch has a way of just beating opponents in all sorts of different ways. He can be outboxed and win, he can outbox his opponent, he can go toe-to-toe, he doesn't care how big his opponent's punch is as his own is bigger, he has a great chin, he is pretty skilful for a guy that could be described as a slugger.... He's the number one at 168 IMO. Bute and Ward still have to prove themselves. Ward's biggest wins are against Bika, Green, Kessler and Miranda. Bute's biggest wins are against Miranda, Andrade, Zuniga, Joppy, Bika.

 

Froch clearly has the best record at 168 IMO.

 

I think the Kessler loss was a blessing in disguise for Froch. As i always say, boxers MUST lose to improve. All of the boxers who have retired undefeated have question marks hanging over their heads. Nobody questions the greatness of guys like Robinson and Kid Gavilan despite the two having a combined loss total of 49.

[Joe Ko]

I see Froch winning the whole tournament still, as i did right from the start. I've watched all but his very first bout and he's every bit the warrior as Benn, Eubank, Watson and Calzaghe. Shame he isn't as well known yet. He should be a household name in the UK.

 

Froch beat Abraham on the outside and outclassed him totally, he got in a brawl with Pascal and beat him convincingly (Pascal has since defeated Diaconu twice and dethroned LH champ and undefeaed Chad Dawson), he got outboxed by Taylor but didn't let it get him down for a second and scored an incredible 12th round KO, he beat Dirrell IMO as i have always believed the challenger has to WIN a World title and not just TAKE it off a champion who may have underperformed slightly on the evening (i always give the champion the decision in any 50-50 result) and IMO he beat Kessler (i scored the fight 115-113 for Froch).

 

Froch has a way of just beating opponents in all sorts of different ways. He can be outboxed and win, he can outbox his opponent, he can go toe-to-toe, he doesn't care how big his opponent's punch is as his own is bigger, he has a great chin, he is pretty skilful for a guy that could be described as a slugger.... He's the number one at 168 IMO. Bute and Ward still have to prove themselves. Ward's biggest wins are against Bika, Green, Kessler and Miranda. Bute's biggest wins are against Miranda, Andrade, Zuniga, Joppy, Bika.

 

Froch clearly has the best record at 168 IMO.

 

I think the Kessler loss was a blessing in disguise for Froch. As i always say, boxers MUST lose to improve. All of the boxers who have retired undefeated have question marks hanging over their heads. Nobody questions the greatness of guys like Robinson and Kid Gavilan despite the two having a combined loss total of 49.

 

Completly agree, Froch needed that loss, just to get really fully focused that he is a boxer not a fighter.

 

I picked Froch to win from the start aswell, Johnson Froch should be a good scrap but Froch should win a clear UD. Ward does have it tough against Abraham cause he will run, he cant out strength Abraham like Froch did, so Abraham has a shot a knocking him out maybe.